THE INNOVATIVE CHURCH LEADER PODCAST AND GIVEAWAYS:
We want to help pastors experience and bring renewal through Spirit-led innovation, reaching new people, and making disciples who make disciples.
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David Bennett’s journey from gay atheist activist to celibate Christian theologian challenges everything we think we know about ministry to LGBTQ+ individuals. In this raw conversation, David shares how a supernatural encounter in a Sydney pub transformed his life, why he identifies as a “gay Christian,” and what the church gets wrong (and right) about serving the queer community.
David doesn’t offer easy answers. Instead, he introduces a framework of “solidarity and holy fellowship” that refuses to compromise either inclusion or biblical holiness. For leaders navigating these complex waters, this conversation offers fresh language and practical wisdom for creating spaces where people can wrestle authentically with hard questions. He explores his dramatic conversion story and prophetic encounter, why queer people are “sacred gifts” to the church, the idolatry of marriage that damages both straight and gay Christians, how to hold tension between inclusion and holiness without collapsing either side, and why for him identifying as “gay” matters for his witness.
THE INNOVATIVE CHURCH LEADER PODCAST AND GIVEAWAYS:
We want to help pastors experience and bring renewal through Spirit-led innovation, reaching new people, and making disciples who make disciples.
Be sure to sign up for our email newsletter at innovativechurchleaders.org/join-us for a chance to win future book giveaways, retreats, cohorts, workshops, and assessments!
Dr. Bob Roberts Jr., the founder of GlocalNet, a ministry dedicated to mobilizing the church to bring about transformation in the public square, co-founder of the Multi-Faith Neighbors Network, an organization committed to promoting religious freedom through intentional cross-cultural relationships.
He shared this message at the Beyond Us Conference.
Bob went to Baylor and seminary on his way to being a missionary only to be rejected by the mission board because of his wife’s health. They tried 3 times to go overseas, but never got accepted.
Leighton Ford was mentoring Bob and speaking on global evangelism which was discouraging because that is what Bob wanted to be doing. On the ride home, the Holy Spirit came uninvited and asked him to start thinking about missions differently and posed this question to him:
“What if the Church was the missionary.”
What if we mobilized everyone to be missionaries rather than a select few?!
The Holy Spirit empowers, equips, and guides us to fulfill the Great Commission.
The first church planters in the New Testament were businessmen!
God uses everybody to advance His Kingdom!
We have all we need to complete the Great Commission! It’s just a matter of obedience and our willingness.
Going Through the Front Door (Like Paul Did)
80% of Bob’s time is with non-Christians.
Northwood Church helped start 200 churches. Glocal has helped plant another 200 churches.
“And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. Pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should. Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” – Colossians 4:3-6 NIV
“After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.” – Acts 1:3 NIV
We travel with Kingdom authority!
Gates were entries and access and wisdom.
The Kingdom of God can be summarized with “Shalom” which means the “flourishing of all things”
Getting people to pray the sinners prayer doesn’t change the city. If it did,
How many baptisms is not the measure but is the city being renewed by new followers of Jesus is the measure.
Matthew 5-7 is the manifesto of the Kingdom of God.
Matthew 6-25 includes parables that illustrates the Kingdom of God.
After the message of the Kingdom comes the Great Commission.
The Gospel makes a difference!
Colossians 1:15-20 is about the fullness of God which is the Kingdom of God.
The Church needs to live out in its community what the Gospel looks like.
No one wants you there if you only do evangelism and missions. What are we doing to serve people and to bring value to people.
We don’t have to take over a culture, we just have to be salt and light in the culture.
We don’t want Christian nationalism. We want Holy Spirit presence.
We keep trying to turn missionaries into business people. Why don’t we turn business people into missionaries.
We go in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Just ask Him to fill us with His Spirit and then believe it.
Spiritual gifts are necessary to live out the ministry of Jesus.
Just because we have seen people use spiritual gifts improperly that doesn’t mean they are not real.
We go in every dimension.
“On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”” – Acts 1:4-8 NIV
All of the apostles go to the ends of the earth.
We need to do missions at home and abroad.
Don’t try to fix everything at home first and then going globally. Try to bring healing here AND there!
Going overseas can inspire work at home.
Mobilize your church into the dominions where they work in civil society, business, economics, medicine, agriculture, and so on.
Don’t do missions to people but with people.
Too often we want non-Christians to accept Christ, but we don’t want to be their friends.
When you go through the front door, you don’t have to hide who you are.
Go in Prayer
Go in Twos
Go in Community
Glocal.net churches start churches, works with the inner city, and chooses a hard place around the world.
Don’t become the biggest church, instead church the city.
Bring value to people and love people and share with people, and they will open their hearts.
You can disagree and respect someone without vilifying them. See people as created in the image of God.
Bob’s Ministries:
Glocal (glocal.net) mobilizes the church to engage in the public square.
K->D->S->C->
Kingdom of God -> Disciple -> Society -> Church
We promote human flourishing globally by engaging the whole of society through people-to-people engagement.
What if we learned from the global church how to do missions?
Global Faith Forum (globalfaithforum.com) – Building a culture of kindness for the common good.
Offices in D.C. are 3-4 min walk to the White House
Apolitical to stay relevant regardless of who is President
Building a culture of kindness for the common good
Tom Lin serves as the president and CEO of InterVarsity. He shared this message at Beyond Us.
Tom’s parents moved to the USA so he wouldn’t have to grow up in poverty in Asia. As an adult, God called Tom and his wife to move to Mongolia where there were no Christians and where the Bible was finally translated into Mongolian in 2000. Now he found himself living in poverty in Asia.
Notice what God promised in Genesis 12:1-5.
The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.
2 “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”
4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Harran. 5 He took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had accumulated and the people they had acquired in Harran, and they set out for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there.
God did not say:
“I will bless you and you will have a happy life.” “I will bless you so you can live out the American dream!”
Instead, He said: “I will bless you and you will be a blessing and all people on earth will be blessed through you!”
God wants to bless people who will put their feet to their faith.
GOD’S GLOBAL PURPOSES
“Fill the earth and subdue it” (Genesis 1)
“All the nations you have made will come and worship before you, O Lord; they will bring glory to your name.” (Psalm 86:9)
“Go and make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28)
“You will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)
There are more people alive today that do not know about Jesus than any time in history!
To bless the nations often requires leaving comfort.
Tom’s parents did not support their call to the mission field. His mom threatened to kill herself if they moved. Instead, they cut them off and refused communication for years.
Abraham moves and resides in at least 8 different places in Genesis 12-13. Their new neighbors were brutal pagans (the Canaanites).
God doesn’t give comfortable callings.
Consider the Global Church. For example, just a couple of years ago several college students were killed for their faith in Nigeria.
Where is your Mongolia?
That place or people group that might require leaving comfort.
An interesting thing happens when we trust God and go. We experience God’s faithfulness.
GOD’S FAITHFULNESS
Abraham’s marriage. “So Abram went up from Egypt to the Negev, with his wife and everything he had, and Lot went with him.” (13:1) Physical needs. “Abram had become very wealthy in livestock and in silver and gold.” (13:2) Legacy. “I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth.” (13:16)
In Mongolia, Tom and his wife saw 500 students come to Christ! Now it is a Mongolian-led mission.
God always provided.
Tom’s Mom invited him and his wife and kids to her house where she apologized just 2 months before she died.
Next Steps:
Go and get a taste short term.
Read and give sacrificially. (See Operation World)
Go local and reach the nations. (Start a bless the nations prayer group, host internationals for dinner in your home, etc.)
“Something is missionally malignant if we make sacrifices to travel the world to reach people, but are unwilling to cross the street.” – J.D. Payne
Following Jesus is not easy, but putting on his yolk is easier because it fits me better helping me live for Him.
For more resources to help you reach new people or make new disciples, be sure to sign up for our email newsletter here: JOIN US
15,000 churches are expected to close in the next twelve months in the United States. If a church is on the verge of closing, it is beyond “revitalization,” and has moved into the stage of “replanting.” Even with the talk of “revival” in many headlines, most studies agree that about 25% of Americans attend church on a monthly basis.
General sense of distrust, confusion, and turmoil.
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” —Mathew 4:17
The kingdom of God = recognizing the reality of Jesus’ reign here and now.
Living out the teaching of Jesus in light of his grace.
Forgiveness, purity, radical generosity, loving enemies, reconciliation, justice, and so on become ways of life.
The gospel is the message.
The Kingdom is the reality.
A Kingdom DNA church shifts from “program participation” to “embodied obedience.”
A disciple is someone who not only has saving faith in Jesus, but is also actively striving to embody what Jesus commanded.
Sermon on the Mount is a distillation of how to live as a disciple of Jesus.
Kingdom → Disciple → Society
We demonstrate the power of the gospel when we live out Jesus’ teachings.
Example, asking a follower of Jesus about where they work: “Is there anything where you work that goes against the way of Jesus?” – Yes! Lots! “Well, then can you fix one?” – Yes, but they will have lots of questions about why I care. “Perfect! That is when you will have the opportunity to represent Jesus and even share your faith where you work!”
Kingdom DNA is not competitive DNA.
Instead of thinking competitively we need to think collaboratively!
Kingdom → Disciple → Society → Church
As Kingdom disciples live the Way of Jesus in their domains, the gospel spreads and the church is strengthened (or emerges).
If the Kingdom was Jesus’ primary message, Kingdom DNA churches seek to reclaim that centrality and live it.
Check out the “Kingdom DNA course” and Church planting cohort” at Glocal.net
Q&A:
What about the world wanting us to choose a side when it comes to politics?
We don’t give into the world’s talking points or the world’s categories. Third way is not the middle but Kingdom which is wholly above and transcendant. Acknowledge without giving into picking sides. Always reorient people towards the Kingdom rather than the algorithms and social media.
Bonhoeffer in the 1930s – “America’s religion is nationalism.”
“We move at the speed of family.”
Best way to introduce people new to faith to the Scriptures?
What does the passage reveal about God, Jesus, or His plan?
What do you discover about people?
What does the passage teach us about humanity, sin, and our needs?
How will you obey this passage?
Based on the passage, what is God calling you to do this week? Make a concrete, simple, and measurable plan, often starting with “I will…”.
Another option on hoow to incorporate this into a study:
Start with fellowship: Begin by sharing what you are thankful for, what has caused stress, and any community needs.
Read and retell: One person reads a passage, and then others try to retell it in their own words.
Ask the questions: Discuss the core questions about God, people, and application.
Share and do: Determine how to apply the passage through an “I will” statement and share it with others.
Follow-up: Meet again to share experiences, discuss any challenges with “I will” statements, and ask who you will tell.
Seems that the church planter pipeline is drying up?
Established churches are also at a staffing crisis so they are recruiting people who might have planted had they not been offered a job with resources. However, more and more collaborative networks are helping plant churches together.
For more resources to help you reach new people or make new disciples, be sure to sign up for our email newsletter here: JOIN US
The church in the USA is experiencing a rapid decline – much like the Church has experienced in the rest of the Western World.
In an article from December 2024 called “Churches fight to stay open as attendance dwindles,” Steve Osunsami and Sean Keane write: “In the late 1940s, nearly 80% of Americans said they belonged to a church, synagogue, mosque, or temple, according to Gallup. Today, just 45% say the same, the analytics company noted, and only 32% say that they worship God in a house of prayer once a week. In 2019, before the COVID-19 pandemic, America was losing as many as 1,000 churches a year.”
In January 2024, the Pew Research Center reported on the fastest growing religious group in the United States – the “nones.” These are people who indicate they have no religious affiliation. They write: “Today, about 28% of U.S. adults are religiously unaffiliated, describing themselves as atheists, agnostics or “nothing in particular” when asked about their religion…. Most “nones” say they were raised in a religion, usually Christianity. Yet today, they tend to be disconnected from religious institutions…. About half say spirituality is very important in their lives or say they think of themselves as spiritual.”
Of those who do attend a church that practices orthodox biblical Christianity, not all who participate have a biblical worldview. Their Christian faith is often a part of their life rather than the guiding force of all that they do.
The Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University reported on the work of the Barna Group writing: “The first national study of Americans’ worldview since the COVID-19 lockdowns shows that the incidence of biblical worldview has fallen to a mere 4%… Within the born-again population (just 33% of the adult population), a shockingly small proportion (13%) hold a biblical worldview.” This means many people who call themselves followers of Jesus are not actually trying to live and think like Jesus or do not fully understand what that means.
To dive into a biblical worldview a bit more, here are the beliefs that followers of Jesus with a biblical worldview hold according to the Barna research group:
There are absolute moral truths that apply to all people, regardless of their circumstances. Moral truth is defined by the teachings of the Bible. Jesus Christ lived a sinless life as described in the Bible. Jesus is central to your faith and worldview. God is the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe. God continues to rule over the universe today. Salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned through human efforts. Satan is a real spiritual being, as described in the Bible. Christians have a responsibility to share their faith in Christ with other people and look for ways to do so in wise ways. The Bible is accurate in all of its teachings.
When we have a biblical worldview, we are seeking to grow to think and act more like Jesus. We believe God is calling all who follow Jesus to represent Him well in how we think and how we live. In doing so, we will help those without faith find faith, and we will bring more of heaven to earth.
The Time is Now
The last ten years have been incredibly difficult for pastors. With political divisiveness at an all time high, we were then faced with a global pandemic which left some churches meeting online for almost two years and many churches seeing regular attendance plummet.
Now is the opportunity to start afresh.
I am reminded of the late great NFL coach Vince Lombardi who started every training camp with the same speech year after year saying to the players while holding a pigskin: “Men, this is a football.” He wanted to start with the basics and even remind them of the love of the game they developed when they first picked up the sport as children.
When we look at the last words of Jesus to His disciples and see how they lived it out, we can go back to the basics and rediscover our calling.
We are to make disciples who make disciples.
Too often we make it too complicated and over-engineer things.
Before ascending to the right hand of the Father, Jesus said to His disciples: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” – Jesus, Matthew 28:18-20
We see that after the Spirit came to empower the early church, they began to live this out in a beautiful way.
They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. – Acts 2:42-47
Now, we all know the early church struggled with heresy, immorality, and conflict. That becomes obvious in the letters from the apostle Paul to the churches he started and the leaders he invested in. That is because ministry is messy because people are messy.
How beautiful it is though when the local church simplifies back on our mission of reaching people who grow in their faith and reach people who grow in their faith who reach people.
As we help our people find faith and bring more of heaven to earth, we realign with God’s invitation to us.
